Lady Wrestlers and Writers (Enos-Words of Mormon)

Monday, March 23, 2020

This episode covers a few entire books in the Book of Mormon. Don't worry - they are all pretty short! But in them is a wealth of information about the power of prayer and family history. Elise and Channing have an in-depth discussion about prayer, the powerful example of women's prayers in the scriptures, and the significance of family history. We're excited to have you participate in the conversation. Welcome friends!

Resources mentioned in this episode
  • The Book of Mormon for the Least of These by Salleh & Hemming. Read more about it here.
  • The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank. Read more about it here.
  • The Tree at the Center by Kathryn Knight Sonntag. Read more about it here. (Channing incorrectly named the book in the episode as "she is the tree" - she gives a thousand apologies!)
  • Michelle Franzoni Thorley on Instagram @florafamiliar
  • The Red Tent by Anita Diamant. Read more about it here.
Scriptures mentioned in this episode
  • Enos 2-3
  • Enos 4
  • Enos 8
  • Enos 12
  • 1 Samuel 1:10-16
  • 2 Nephi 26:16

Music used in this episode:

Poddington Bear "Sunset Stroll Into The Wood"
Chris Zabriskie "Everybody's Got Problems That Aren't Mine"

Transcribed by Maddie Daetwyler of @lightenprint

C: Hi, I’m Channing

E: And I’m Elise.

C: And this is the Faithful Feminists podcast. We saved you a seat on the soft chairs. So join us today for a conversation about about the chapters of Enos all the way through the Words of Mormon for the dates March 23rd hrough the 29th. We're so glad you're here.

E: Welcome back everyone. We're super glad that you're here and that we can to spend some time covering these chapters today. We're going to be focusing on prayer and trying to think about the potential of mothers passing records to their daughters. And then finally, we'll have a little conversation about how we can connect to our ancestors. So we start out in the book of Enos and this is a really well-loved chapter of the Book of Mormon because we learn so much about the nature of prayer and also the nature of Enos’s heart. And so just to give a little bit of a recap, Enos goes into the wilderness and he participates in this really mighty prayer and a wrestle before God, and he gets forgiven of his sins. And then he also turns outward and starts sharing the love that he has for God with all of the people around him. 

C: So one of the most beautiful passages in the book of Enos that we have about his prayer with God is in verses 2 and 3. And those say, “And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God, before I received a remission of my sins. Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forest and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life and the joy of the saints sunk deep into my heart.”

E: What I love about these verses is that we kind of get a behind the scenes take on Enos in his prayer, and it looks so different than what we typically see in LDS prayer, right?

It's not this little blonde haired, blue eyed girl who's kneeling by her bedside with her arms folded or her hands like interlaced. It's some mid-hunt type of prayer. And the verb that gets used here as wrestle. And so it's a struggle, and it's not necessarily a struggle with God, but it's a struggle before God, perhaps that God is witnessing how difficult it can be to approach God in prayer and to really have a contract heart. We wanted to read a little passage from the Book of Mormon For the Least of These texts by Fatimah Salleh and Margaret Olsen Hemming. And it says, “Enos is not the first writer to use the verb wrestle to describe his experiences with the divine, and we should take the word seriously. Our journey with God is often grueling and painful, and you don't walk away the same person.” And I think this is a really hopeful way to understand this wrestle, even though in the moment it is grueling, it is painful, and we don't know the outcome, but it seems that one thing is for sure, prayer or wrestling before, or with God, changes us.

C: And I think we can really see the evidence of that change in Enos. Especially later through the chapter. And we'll talk about that a little bit further on, but before that, another verse that we wanted to focus on is found in Enos verse 4, and this is a really good description of what that experience of that wrestle was before God, what that was like for Enos.

He says, “And my soul hungered, and I kneeled down before my maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for my own soul, and all the day long I did cry into him. Yea, and when the night came, I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.”

E: This first also introduces us to other strong, active verbs, like hungered and kneeled and cried and turning to the Lord in supplication for your own soul and raising your voice high into the heavens. And there's the idea here that this is no easy thing. This is something that takes work. It requires a lot of intense emotion and it's painstaking. It takes a long time. Enos is praying all day and all night. And I remember some lessons in Sunday school turning to the book of Enos and our teachers would just say something like, what's the longest you've ever prayed? And I'm thinking in my head, um, 45 seconds, a minute and 15 seconds? Not all day and all night. But Enos is doing that here. And you can just appreciate the visual that Enos gives to us because I imagine him being overcome with, whether it's guilt or just desire to engage with us, with this God who is willing to forgive, but I think of Enos as asking, “God, are you there? Can you hear me? I'm crying out to you. I'm crying so loud that my voice is literally ascending into heaven because I hope that you hear me.” But when I think of the verb hungered, on fast Sunday, it's all I can do not to think about the next meal. And so if that's happening to my soul, if my soul is hungering or yearning or feasting after God, my gosh, I'll do anything -- I will do anything to satisfy that hunger. And so perhaps it's the same with Enos. Perhaps this hunger has been growing and building and his soul has been grumbling to be in relationship with God.

C: As I was reading through this chapter, a verse that really stuck out to me just because of the language that's used is verse 8. So that one reads, this is after Enos has said his prayer and then God speaks back to Enos and says, “Because of thou faith in Christ, whom thou has never before heard, nor seen, and many years away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh, wherefore go to. Thy faith hath made thee whole.” And those are pretty familiar words. If you happen to be using your LDS tools app, you'll be able to click the hyperlink. It links to the story in Luke about the daughter of Jairus. She was the one who was raised from the dead. And also if you do a quick search for those words, “Thy faith hath made thee whole,” it also pulls up the story of the 10 lepers that Christ healed. And one came back to thank Him. And so Elise found a really good quote also from the Book of Mormon for the Least of These that we thought was really relevant to this verse. 

E: It says, “Here Enos has also healed miraculously, this time from the sickness of sin, but God pronounces Enos whole as a function of his faith. Healing is the first step towards wholeness, but faith is required for it to be complete. This makes us a partner with God in the process of becoming whole. We may be passive recipients of the grace of healing, but wholeness requires an exertion of our own faith and gratitude.” I appreciate this commentary because it recognizes the role that God plays in healing and grace and forgiveness. But it also says that we're partners, just like we talked about in last week's episode. We are the servants who are laboring alongside the Lord of the vineyard. And so we're called to act. We're asked to have faith so that we can be whole ourselves. God can certainly make us whole. But it's up to us to use our agency and our voice and make choices that help us feel like a whole complete person who has changed for the good. And so with this wholeness, if we move down to verses 9 through 11, Enos doesn't just celebrate his wholeness and move on with his life. This wholeness and this healing turns him outward because his heart has expanded. His heart has grown and been made whole in God. And so he really feels a desire or a yearning to share this goodness with his entire community. From the same text, the book of Mormon for the Least of These, it says, “Enos takes the wholeness he has received and shares it. Healing begets healing, and wholeness begets wholeness.”

C: It does. It demonstrates it really well because Enos started out praying, “Please redeem me for my own sins. Help me feel better about the things that I've done.” But God does him one step better, right? He's says I'll do you one better. Not only will I forgive you all your sins, I'll also make you whole. And then Enos perhaps, and maybe I'm just putting myself in his place, but after receiving this great gift, something even bigger than what he initially asked for, he was like, “Oh, dang, this is so much better than my dad told me. I want to do more. What do I do to be able to share this?” And so even in just this short amount of time Enos has experienced a mighty change of heart. And I wouldn't venture very far to say that he was not a righteous man. I mean, his dad was the prophet Jacob, and you can tell just from the way that he speaks about his father, that there was a lot of love and respect there. So having a mighty change of heart, even as a righteous person, can be life-changing and completely transformative. And so I think this chapter just demonstrates that really, really well. And I think the kind of pinnacle of this entire experience that Enos has with the Lord shows up in verse 12. So the verse says, “And it came to pass that after I had prayed and labored with all diligence, the Lord said unto me, I will grant unto thee, according to thy desires because of my faith.” Something that was pointed out from that same text, The Book of Mormon for the Least of These, was a point that I thought was really fascinating. Here, instead of the Lord setting terms for a covenant or a promise that is going to be made, the Lord opens the opportunity for Enos to set the terms. And if you look at the events in order, how they happen in the chapter, Enos first goes and prays for remission of his sins. He receives that. Then he's changed by the grace and love of God. And then he experiences a mighty change of heart, and all of a sudden finds himself turning outward and more community or other focused to share that same love. And, we kind of get to be privy to that process because he shares it so intimately with the reader. But I think if we kind of take a step back, what we really see happening here is Enos aligning himself more with the will of God. And I think that it is that alignment or attunement or oneness with God where the Lord can say, “Okay, now you know what I know, or at least a portion of what I want you to know, and I have full faith in you that whatever you're going to ask for me, of course I'm going to want the same thing, too. So you just tell me what you want and I'll give it to you.” And I think that's so fascinating. I just love it. 

E: Yeah. This is a great reminder that there is this potential for us to work toward aligning our will with God's will. Again, working in partnerships, so that God can really say, just like Channing said, “Okay, whatever choice you would make or whatever desires you have, those are probably the same desires that I, God, have too. And so therefore, you have free reign and I will support you moving forward.”

E: Because these chapters cover so many prophets over such a huge amount of time, we think it's important to remember that what we're reading out of the Book of Mormon is just one slice of the entire historical pie. And it's really only one perspective, and it's Enos’s  perspective or it's the son's perspective or the brother's perspective… and therefore it's the male's perspective. But, I think it's easy for us to forget that there were women here, too.. And Enos isn't the only one who has prayed and wrestled before God. There were women like Hagar and Miriam and Deborah and Esther and Mary and Hannah – all of these women who are engaging in a similar type of struggle or hungering for a relationship with God that turns them to prayer, whether it's a prayer of anguish or sorrow or a prayer of praise or a song of praise to the Lord.

C: As we were studying some of these women's stories, the one that stuck out to us the most was the story of Hannah. And just to refresh your memory, because she's not mentioned specifically in this week's reading, Hannah, her story is found in 1 Samuel chapter 1. And Hannah is the mother of the prophet, Samuel, of the old Testament. The background of Hannah's story is that she is in a polygamist marriage, which is not that uncommon for Sld Testament times. And she and her husband are very deeply in love. They've been married for a long time, but she has been unable to bear a child, but the other wife has born many and kind of been like not nice about it, and just totally rubbed it in her face and just kind of like seriously made fun of her, which I'm sure was such a heart-wrenching experience for Hannah. And so Hannah carries this anguish, this sorrow, this shame, to the Lord and says a beautiful, pleading prayer to God. And that prayer is found in 1 Samuel chapter 1 verses 10 through 16. And we won't read all of them. But demonstrating really well her deep, deep anguish is found in verses 10 and 11. Those say, “And she (Hannah) was in bitterness of soul and prayed unto the Lord, and wept sore. And she vowed a vow and said, Oh Lord of hosts, if thou will indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me and not forget thine handmaid, but will give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the Lord all the days of his life. And there shall no razor come upon his head.” Which, essentially she's saying, God, if you give me a son, I covenant to you that I will return him to you in service all the days of his life. And while she's saying this prayer, I think she's at the temple, the prophet, Eli, sees her and at first he thinks she's totally drunk. And so he kind of approaches her, and he says, “How long wilt thou be drunken? Put away thy wine from thee.” And she's probably… I can just picture her looking at him with tears in her eyes, red cheeks, a snotty nose, and she just looks at him and she says, “No, my Lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord.” And that passage is verse 15. And so I think this is a really beautiful mirror image of Enos and Hannah. And I think studying them side by side really demonstrates the power of prayer and a covenant promise. And it really doesn't matter the gender, right? Hannah kept her promise. Enos kept his. And the Lord loved both of them. 

E: It really is a beautiful parallel because if we place them side by side, both Enos and Hannah are approaching the Lord. Hannah says it's in bitterness of the soul. And Enos says it's a wrestle. But with both of these, it's hard work for these people to come before God. And they're sorrowful. They're weeping, like Hannah says, or they're crying out to the heavens, like Enos says, and then moving forward, they both are trying to set the terms for their own vow or their own covenant. And both of these covenants are other focused, right?

Hannah says, please, God, if you give me a son, I will make sure that the son goes about and, you know, glorifies you all the day long. And Enos says, God, please keep these records for my people so that they might know of your goodness. And so both of these people are trying to align their will with God and they're seeking God's favor, but they're also approaching them in sorrow and in uncertainty, Hannah hasn’t had a kid for like hundreds of years. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but she hasn't had a kid in a really long time. So coming before the Lord and asking in this type of anguish, she probably was in a similar way, praying all day and all night, just like Enos was. 

C: So I think this parallel study and this chapter of a really beautiful and intimate prayer and experience with the Lord is a great way to study and understand the way that prayer can influence and change us. But I think my biggest takeaway personally from these chapters is that powerful prayer is not gendered, especially when we do the parallel study with Hannah. And that though Enos is a beautiful and incredible chapter about prayer, it's not the only one. And so when we're needing other examples, don't be afraid to open your scriptures to other books and experience the prayers of the other women that are found in the text.

E: The next thing that we wanted to talk about is the ways that the records get passed down through each of these books from fathers to son and then fathers to son and fathers to son, and really there's eight fathers that are passing the records and the stories to their sons over a few hundred years. And the stories that get shared between father and son or accounted for among the sons to the people, these are stories of wars. They're accounts trying to kind of make sense of the overall wickedness or righteousness of their people versus the overall wickedness or righteousness of the Lamanites. And it kind of is a genealogical track for the descendants, where the people are in this time in history and what they've seen, even if they only share just a few verses before they have to pass the record onto someone else. And our question that we wanted to pose was really, what types of records or stories would have been written or kept if these records were passed from mothers to daughters instead?

C: The first thing that came to mind in answer to this question is that I personally feel that a lot of the records would probably have contained more of the day-to-day experiences. And one of the most prominent examples I can think of of this would be the diary of Anne Frank. And it's one of the most read diaries ever. I mean, I don’t know that for sure, so don't fact check me on that, or do, it's fine, but it is a widely read journal and what is so powerful about it is that it does just contain those day-to-day details, but also with incredible insight and incredible wisdom spurred by those day to day moments. And I think we really miss out on that. I think that is something that is kind of unique to a woman's voice, or has the potential to be, anyway. 

E: The other thing that we thought about in response to this question is that, if the fathers and sons are the ones that are going into war and sharing the stories of war, where does that place the mothers and the daughters? And one, it still places them with responsibility of raising families and cooking and kind of caretaking, but they're also caretaking the soldiers that are coming back from war, right? They're the ones that might be mending and tending and healing the warriors. And so those might be different types of stories or perspectives that get shared about war than what we hear from the fathers and the sons.

C: And something I really loved to think about and explore is the idea that perhaps these women might've had a different perspective that could have brought a little bit of humor or maybe playfulness in these stories, and sure they can be intertwined and entangled with stories of spirituality and the day-to-day experiences again, but I just love this potential idea of these women just sharing their joy with us. 

E: I was thinking about the types of stories that get shared from my mom to me and my sisters. And a lot of memories I have of my mom are of her singing or dancing in the kitchen. And I can still hear her favorite song or hear the song that she would sing to us when we were little kids standing in the mirror or singing to the grandchildren. And so maybe these records would contain more songs or poems or just a type of joyful experience than perhaps what we've seen in the past. And this also means that their relationship to God and their understanding of faith would be different as well, because they have their own different experience. They're in a different social location than their fathers and their husbands and their sons. And so God might show up for them differently, or they might understand their relationship with God differently. And we don't, we want to make it clear that we don't actually know what types of records or stories would have been written or kept and then passed down if it was from mothers to daughters, but it is a vibrant exercise to think about women's perspective and how they can help contribute to furthering society.

C: I agree. And also I feel a little bit of sadness thinking about those missing chapters and those missing records. And sometimes if I really think about it, I feel a little bit angry and I feel like there's a little bit of a loss there. I wish that there were some. I wish that we knew, and maybe someday in the future we will, but for now, we're just left to guess and hope and think about and wonder what their lives would have been like. And it's okay, I think, to feel a little bit of grief about that. But it doesn't mean that they're not there, even if you can't see them. And I think a powerful practice like we've been doing here today is to imagine them, and to look for the different ways that they speak to us. A book that I found recently that I feel like has been really influential for me is a book of poetry called She is the Tree written by Kathryn Knight Sontag. And the very first poem when you open the book is titled Nu SHu* and has a little asterisk next to it that defines Nu Shu. And it's literally translated to mean “women's script”. And what Nu Shu is, is it's actually a form of written language from women in ancient China. So ancient China was very patriarchal, women weren't allowed to receive an education. So a lot of times they didn't know or weren’t allowed to anyway, write language. And so they invented their own, and there are records and diaries and journals and notes that were passed from woman to woman in this kind of secret language a little bit. And I just think it's 1) so fascinating. How cool is that? I’m not that inventive, I could not come up with like a secret language. But 2) I think this idea of Nu Shu, or this idea of learning a different language, really demonstrates the necessity of, if we do feel that grief of losing out on our mother's stories, that there's still potential that they are still there. We just have to learn how to recognize them. Almost like we have to learn to speak a new language. So as I thought about this idea more and more, one of the verses that came to my mind is actually from a past chapter, Second Nephi chapter 26, verse 16. And the phrase that really sticks out to me is “a voice from the dust.” And if I think about my ancestresses or my foremothers stories speaking to me from the dust, I think it's really powerful. And I just wanted to share that verse with you because I think in a different light, it can be really fascinating and powerful. So that verse says “For those who shall be destroyed (or may be forgotten), shall speak unto them out of the ground. And their speech shall be low out of the dust. And their voice shall be as one that hath a familiar spirit, for the Lord God will give unto them power that they may whisper concerning them, even as it were out of the ground, and their speech shall whisper out of the dust.” And so I think that that just is a powerful reminder that sometimes it's necessary for us to just listen closely, to recognize things that maybe have already been there. And so this idea of finding the ways that our mothers speak to us from the dust really strongly reminded Elise and I of family history. And family history, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a huge passion of mine, I'm not totally like a family history buff, but I had a brief stint in one of my past wards as a family history consultant. And it was probably one of my top three callings. It was just so much fun to learn how to do it all. And I got really into like the whole family search and the family tree and all of that. But I had a really difficult time actually connecting to any of the names that were listed there. And it wasn't until a couple of years later, after we had moved into a new ward and I was essentially a new person by that point, did I really start to feel this really deep desire to connect to my foremothers. And so one of the things that I did in attempts to get to know them a little bit better was recipes and cooking, which actually sounds super weird, but it's not. One day I was flipping through my recipe book at home and I realized I had a couple of recipes from my husband's mom and my husband's grandma, but I had no recipes from my mom, none from either of my grandmothers, and definitely not from anyone further back from that, so I got in touch with both of my grandparents, well, both of my grandmas, and asked them to send me a few recipes. And they did, they were so excited to share them with me. And some of them were classic childhood favorites that I had remembered. And some of them I'd never tried before, but it's so incredibly special to me to have these recipes to be able to make and just feel connected to them. And I feel like, I don't know why I get teary-eyed thinking about it, but my dad's mom actually hand wrote all of those recipes for me on index cards. And I don't know why it's so meaningful. I mean, she's still alive. So grandma, if you're listening, thanks. That's awesome. But I just love having those recipes written in her hand and knowing that she probably copied them down from recipes that her mom had touched, and maybe her grandma had touched. And I just think that's so impactful and powerful, and I just, I love it. And one of the experiences that I remember the most is I always really struggled for a long time to learn how to make a loaf of bread, which sounds like the simplest thing. But my mom never taught me. And so I was essentially learning… I was teaching myself how to bake bread and it's a lot harder than you think it is. And I remember the first time that I successfully made a loaf, and it was after three years of like baking so many failed batches. And I just remember this feeling of suddenly, I could just see in my mind's eye, all of the women that had come before me who spent time in their tiny little kitchens, whether they were from the 1920s or further and further and further back, cooking on a stove, cooking in a pot on the hearth fire. They all baked bread from the same ingredients -- flour, yeast, and water essentially. And I don't know… I seriously can't explain why that's so impactful for me or so important, but just this idea of food being such a necessity for being alive and living a healthy life, and somehow having that connected to all of the women who came before me, not just the ones I remember, but the ones that I want to, they're all there. They've all had those same experiences as me, kneading out the dough, cursing under my breath and frustration. When I pull out a crappy, low flank, they've all been there. And for some reason that's just so, so impactful. And so I think that's a fun one. Honestly, even though I keep romanticizing it essentially, I think recipes are a really powerful way to connect with our ancestresses.

E: There really is a deep yearning to connect with those that came before us, just like Channing was talking about. And I think that's what these books are trying to do, from Enos to the Words of Mormon. They're trying to find something tangible, or some story, or some memory, or something to keep this family alive, something that reminds them of where they came from. Something that reminds them that even though their ancestors and ancestresses aren't around them, or they can't see them, they are always there. They're providing support and guidance and love and direction. And so connecting with them, these people that have come before us, helps us feel like we're a part of something bigger. Like we're a part of really an eternal community and an eternal family. 

C: I think that's perfect. And there are so many ways to connect with our ancestors and ancestresses, and some of those ways, maybe recipes aren't your thing, but maybe you have journals from your grandmother or your great-grandmother or even further back, maybe you have photos or heirlooms. And sometimes we don't always have those. I don't, I definitely don't have those, but we also have stories. And everyone has stories. We have fairytales, we have myths, we have folktales, we have songs and lullabies, just like Elise was saying, she remembers her mom singing those songs in the kitchen or the ones that she'd sing to them in the mirror. And I just think that's such a beautiful and tender image. But even beyond that, we have our customs and our culture, and you just gotta dig a little. Sometimes you don't always know where you came from or what your people's stories and customs and traditions are. All you got to do is dig. It's there if you look for it. And last of all, we have our inherited physical traits. We have our hair and our eyes and our eyelashes and the shape of our faces and our noses and our bodies and the way that our bodies are made up in the shape of them. And I think it's just such a beautiful exercise to recognize that we are not just us right here right now. We're the culmination of all of the people and all of the women that came before us, and what beautiful, strong, and steady shoulders we have to stand on. 

E: Someone who is really spearheading this effort for genealogy work and for family history, her name is Michelle Franzoni Thorley and her Instagram handle is @florafamiliar. And she recently posted something that we wanted to read from the caption, because she's a powerful advocate for connecting with those who came before you. And she wrote, “We know the power of generational healing is found in family history and in our connection as women. I know sisterhood is medicine because I’ve felt it. When women and girls come together and treat each other with kindness, there is an energy that can move mountains and heal nations. This magic is also found when we connect to our ancestresses. As we read into the past and find our ancestresses, we find power, resiliency and healing that goes with us into the future. That is what we want for all women and girls, for generations of health prosperity and equality.” And I think this is a lovely, lovely, and persuasive argument as to why family history matters, and why it's important to us. It's because we have a whole web of people that can pass down things, and those things can be really difficult and trying. There can be passed down trauma, or they can pass down things that are lovely and help us prosper and keep us healthy, and make us active with our families and help us make good decisions. And so it's important for us, just like it was important for these prophets of these books, to seek out ways that we can reconnect with our family members that came before us. 

C: I just love what she said. I know sisterhood is medicine because I’ve felt it. And I think that she really speaks to family history being important, not just for everyone, but particularly for women. And I know for me personally, it seems like extra work because the truth is, not all women's stories are preserved. In fact, most aren't. And so it feels like extra work to find the photos to imagine them into life. But part of this work is about creation and connection and feeling that medicine, that magic that Michelle references. And I think that is healing, and that is wholeness, to recognize all of what's been passed down to you, and either work through it or be thankful for it. Whatever's most appropriate. And this idea of connecting with the women in our lives really reminded me of a book that I just love. I will probably talk about it until the day I die. The Red Tent by Anita Diamant is seriously one of my favorite books ever. And a quote that I just love from this reads, “The more a daughter knows the details of her mother's life, the stronger the daughter.” And I think that that just nails it on the head, right? The more that we can draw from our mother's experiences, from her strength, from her knowledge, from her insight and intuition, the more we have permission, not just to exercise those things in our lives, but to recognize it. And it just brings us such great belonging, really, is what I think. To ourselves and to our community. And we know that sometimes this talk of families and mothers and all of that can be kind of triggering and traumatic, especially for those of us, and I include me in that, who have had adverse childhood experiences or just strained relationships with our mothers. If you're not ready, it's okay. And if you can't even bring yourself to consider it, it's okay. Because sisterhood is found in so many different ways and finding yourself happens in so many different ways. 

E: We know that there are other women that you can connect with, either in your bloodline or people in your chosen family. And if you're looking around and you're still thinking, Nope, there's not a single woman who I can or who I care to understand their experiences or their story, we invite you to turn to your Heavenly Mother and see in what ways She might guide you or what She has to offer you. 

C: And so if you're just not ready, we still welcome you here and you still belong here and you still will find yourself here, and it's okay.

E: And there are other cool women around you, or that came before you, that you can choose to incorporate into your newly deemed family. That's an awesome experience.

C: Right, like Hannah or Hagar or Rachel or Leah or all of the other beautiful, amazing women, even just in the scriptures. There's a whole variety of women that you can choose from and just find one that speaks to you, because she probably has a lesson to teach you and so much love to share with you.

E: Thank you so, so much for being here with us today. We were excited to have a conversation about prayer and the ways that we see women pray in the scriptures. We also enjoyed posing the question in and imagining what it might've been like if mother's past records to their daughters in the scriptures, and then finally we tried to drive home the importance of connecting with your ancestresses and finding women to invite into your chosen family. 

C: Thanks so much for joining us today. Every time you tune in and listen, it means so much, and we just love having you for every single conversation. And this one's no different. So we look forward to hearing your thoughts about this episode. And until then, we’ll see you next week.

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